Kent ft15 cam thoughts

Though I would post this in here as well in an effort to fill this place up abit

I have held back abit to give my conclusion on this cam and head swap as tbh I was still unsure in my own mind,my opinion may even change again yet

Trouble is I was testing it in bad weather and wet roads and between the injector swap and trying to setup the fuelling,boost,watch all the gauges and most importantly not crashing I was not really getting a chance to get a good feel for it.

First impressions were that maybe something was missing,it certainly does not feel the same as before but that was to be expected really.
I Was only doing 3rd and 4th gear pulls at this time as 2nd was/is unusable in the wet,and needed the higher gears to sort the fuelling which I will come to at a later date.

Anyhow I have had it out tonight with the dryer roads and given it a good beating,so the conclusion..

It idles like crap but in a cammed way, but to the untrained ear/non petrol head they would look at you car and think somethings broke/wrong

Me I am getting used to it and have grow to quite like it,its cool to hear as well as feel something different is going on under the bonnet .
For some one looking for a smooth idle I don’t think this cam is for them,from a thread I have on puntosports this is considered normal for the kent cam.

http://www.puntosports.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?129155-Kent-cam-idle

If its worse on the lower 1301cc mk1 I don’t know,but leighs mini from tc also has this cam and idles pretty much the same and I think that’s a 1372cc?

Its surprising really as on paper this is quite a mild cam and quoted as a sports cam,I also dialled in my cam to kents specs with a vernier which I checked 7 odds times with all result within 1crank degree of each other so I am pretty certain the cam timing is correct.
So if you want a smooth idle I would look elsewhere.

Here is how it idles…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wnb4yvrzMU&list=UUsvg6ZX6X-ILPOR4VBpX7mQ&index=3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nblfYHuLFms&list=UUsvg6ZX6X-ILPOR4VBpX7mQ&index=2

Then from the off and early testing I felt it had lost some off boost performance, and this is true and also to be expected to some degree,how much of this is due to the different head I am using I don’t know though.
It just feels slightly flatter and less responsive to throttle inputs if you know what I mean.

Now on boost,its worth noting here that I am proberly running 2psi more boost ,now running 20psi.

At first possibly due to the difference in off boost performance I was thinking that it was feeling maybe like it was spooling later,tbh I really don’t think this is the case and its still on full boost by about 3k,if it has changed it is very minimal indeed.
It does however come on boost different than before I think,before it used to maybe feel abit more snappy and possibly give you that boost kick feeling abit more.
Now at 3k it kicks in abit smoother with not quite the same snap as before I don’t think.

Once on boost and up to maybe 3.5-3.7k it turns into a low down torquey grunt sort of pull,where as before it would sort of peak with the initial 3k boost hit then settle into a solid grunty/torquey pull.

Once at around 3.7- 4k you really start to feel the difference,the pull noticeably changes and the engine really starts to feel free and comes alive pulling a lot harder than before,before it would still be pulling the same with its soild feeling torquey pull.

After 4k the kent just feels like it continues to pull in a smooth extremely grunty fashion all the way to the 6.5-7k revs I am using,before by 5-5.5k it would noticably be starting to lose its soild pull and feel like you are working the engine hard.

I think it even sounds abit different,before in the high revs the engine would have lost it mid range torquey sound and you could/would sort of know/feel/hear that you where revving it high and working it hard.
Now its a lot less harch in the high revs and pulls with the same sort of grunty sound all the way through, with out giving you the same feeling like you beating on it or working it hard.
It almost feels and sounds like it’s a slightly larger cc engine if you get what I mean,before it would sort of be whiney or you would feel that it was a 1300cc revving high.

Hard to explain tbh but I am sure it feels different,this is what was thowing me off abit at the start I think.
Before you could really feel it, in that it would hit hard pull solid then tail off,now its all a lot more smoother,kicks in smoother and then pulls consistently harder with a torquer feeling all the way into the high revs.

At first I was maybe feeling that it had lost some of its character,but after the beating tonight it feels a lot better imo.
Though the gears feels a lot better as when driving hard it drops back into the high revs on gear changes and pulls noticeably harder than before,before like I say you knew you was beating it, now it just grunts and pulls consistently hard.

Well that’s it, obviously there are a lot of variables here as my car is running a different turbo than stock with abit more boost and also the ported head was changed at the same time.
It was also not running a stock cam to start with but an unknown most proberly tipo cam,the cam was pretty similar to a stock mk1 cam but had 9mm lift instead of the the stock 8mm lift.
Also the fuelling maybe playing apart in all this as before it was lean in the high revs where as now its slightly better.

Overall though and atm I would give it a thumbs up,although its changed the characteristics of the car abit its still perfectly drivable at low speeds and feels good imo,the main thing is proberly the rough idle for some.

If its much faster or gained much bhp its hard to tell,it certainly feels it in the high revs, and by the dry mouth and flushed face after a b road blast earily I would proberly say yes,mind you I am a pussy .
I would say for sure the torque has definatally improved though.

This post may have to be edited due to the excessive use of the word grunty

this is interesting, i want to get a cam for mine, i was thinking piper cam though (don't know why).

i also want to use the punto gt ecu setup i've bought.
i would like more torque though too but my uno feels quite good pulling away at the minute, nothing like the punto gt's lots of lag then wham.

i'm wondering if a remapped gt ecu would level out the slightly rough idle.

i think you car sounds great the way it is idling though.

i'll be monitoring this thread to see how yours is as you get used to it.

Yeah if you did get a custom map i do believe that the idle could be smoothed out abit,to be fair the idle does get slightly better when warm.

Atm though i am really happy with the way it drives,its made a pretty big difference imo.mid range and top end feel far better.

The bottom is still pretty good aswell tbh,not quite as responsive as it was though but still very good imo,its still on boost at the same revs but has maybe lost abit of its boost kick.

Dont get me wrong it will still light up the tyres coming on boost in second but dont feel quite as instantaneous coming on boost as it did, if that even makes sence lol.
My fuelling is also pretty rich down the bottom end so this could also be playing a part,but no i am really happy with it.

I think it feels alot more effortless now,before i used to say you could really feel the speed in an uno even if you was not going quite as fast as you thought ,somehow now i dont seem to feel the speed quite as much lol it just grunts and pulls instead of grunting then screams like it used to lol,i find i am doing faster speeds than i used to with out even knowing it,it gets to 80-90 without much fuss now where before you knew you was getting up there.

Its hard to explain,and is proberly not as much a difference to your average person that dont drive it every day,but it certainly changed it and for the beter imo.

I have issues with a hot running plug though atm so still not driven it loads so maybe my opinion may change, but i dout it.
Its all doing my head in atm with this plug,but thats another thread

What ever cam you go for i would be surprised if you dont lose some bottom end,the higher the duration the more the power band moves to the right,and with more duration comes more over lap which can effect your spool so its all abit of a trade off.

Its a nightmare to pick a cam tbh mate,like i mention comparing durations from different manufactuers is a waste of time,as there is no guarentee that they measure there durations with the same amounts of valve lift.
Then there is the lobe seperation angles and lobe center line angles which also play a massive part in the cams performance.

Piper i could not really comment on other than i have read mix things good and bad,same with kent tbh,i went with the kent as it looks the milder cam on paper but as above these are advertised durations and can vary massivly depending how they are measured.

If you are happy with your mid to top end power how it is atm i would surgest not even changing the cam,because as mentioned its always a trade off,what you gain at the top you will lose at the bottom.

It is also very turbo dependant,if you are sticking with the stock turbo and sensible boost pressures a lairy cam may not be for you.
Not that i even know what a stock mk2 turbo can produce lol but all i am saying is all these things are worth considering.

God knows like i say its a mine field, and what works for one may not work for another.

What sort of power and spec are you looking for?

not sure really mate as i'm still no where near as clued up as you and most of the guy's on here, but it is why i want to do this so i can learn.

i'm hoping to rebuild the head and try to polish inside as much as i can.
i have that spare engine that Ant gave me when i bought the car so want to make the use of that too.

i want to fit a high lift cam like your kent one or the piper one.
fit the punto ecu with the chip i got with it, or maybe get a proper live map maybe.
i still want to keep the standard turbo if poss as it's still ok.

i've never been totally happy with the smell of fuel from my car so was hoping the punto set up might cure it.

from what i read on the punto sports forum the mk2 uno (not sure if the mk1 is the same) but the mk2 compressor wheel is bigger than the punto gt one hence why i want to keep it at first.

i'd like to get it somewhere near the 200hp but i don't want it to be all at the top of the rev range if that makes sense.

i may go for the kent one you have as you seam quite happy with it and i guess there's not that may uno drivers i can get feedback from.

i just wish i new a bit more about tuning, i tend to lurk around this section but rarely post because some of the stuff people talk about i have no idea what they mean.

I wish i could confidently surgest what direction to take but if i am honest its all abit hit and miss with these cars, as like you say there aint to much proven tuning info out there for them,i also dont know the mk2s half as well as i know the mk1s.

Also dont be going by what i recommend the last thing i would would want is someone to do the same and be dissapointed.

Also you have to remember that mine is a lower cc to start with, and the stock mk1 cam or even the possibly tipo cam i was using before is alot milder than a stock mk2 cam so i am bound to notice quite a difference from the kent one.

On paper the kent would appear pretty much the same as a mk2 cam just with more lift,but as mentioned in the other post this can sometimes be deceiving aswell.

As for the turbo i am assuming its an ihi and not a garrett? i get confused with the mk2s as i am sure i read somewhere that they came with both depending on the year.

If its an ihi vl5 i can only go from what i have read/remember,yes it is ment to have a ever so slightly larger compressor wheel than a puntos vl7 so will make slightly more power,i think the compressor wheels in these turbos are around the 34- 35mm inducer size for what that tells you
200bhp it wont make i dont think,i am trying to remember what these and the stock punto vl7s are good for,i think the puntos run happerly at around 170bhp so the slightly larger vl5 may do a tiny bit more.
You could proberly push them even harder but there is a point where the turbo will become inefficient and just start blowing hot air and the gains will be marginal for the extra stress on the turbo and the unwanted higher intake charge tempressures.

The next step up for the puntos ihi vl7 is the td md103 vl7 hybrid,the main difference in this turbo is its larger 39mm inducer comp wheel,this is getting close to a 200bhp turbo now i think and still retains stock like spool but 200bhp is really starting to push it and is not a guarentee that it will make that power,proberly more happy around the 180-190bhp mark,also worth mentioning i think it has cut back turbine blades as well but how much power this also adds over a stock turbo i am unsure.

You can even move away from the relatively small ihi's and move to larger garretts,not something i have really looked into tbh but if you want an efficient true 200bhp this is where i would proberly be looking,but i would be amazed if they would spool anywhere near as fast as the tiny ihi's,but what they may possibly lack at the bottom i am sure would be made up for in top end power which is not really the ihi's strong point imo.



A cam may help it make abit more power more easyly but as above go to extreme and you may start noticing losses at the bottom,but the bottom line imo is your car will only ever make as much power as the turbo can supply,your turbo choice will also to some degree dictate how that power is produced so you want to find a cam that will match your turbo.

You can also adjust the cam timing to some degree to adjust the way the power is derlivered but to really know what the affects of this are it needs to be done on a dyno,advance the cam more bottom end retard more up top.


Then there are the other smaller details.

Intercooler if stock it will tend to pop apart when you start running higher boost pressures and to make the power on the ihi turbos you need to run higher boost pressures.
There also abit small imo and running higher pressures and pushing the turbo harder produces more heat,more heat equals less power and a higher chances of det.
This is proberly fine on a road car if driven sensibly but if your an animal or drive hard for long periods it would not surprise me if you will start to notice a drop in power from the hotter intake temps.

Clutch,for a true 200bhp with around the same amount of torque i would suspect the clutch would be close to its limits,you maybe fine as the mk2 clutch is larger but an even larger punto gt clutch/flywheel might be worth considering.

Throttle body and intercooler pipe size,not looked into this to hard or when it even becomes a restriction, but its worth considering i would of thought around this level of power,the thorttle body and hot side intercooler pipe are around 42mm i think,if you change the tb you atleast want to change this pipe aswell to get the most from it.

Spark plugs, more power more heat maybe worth dropping to the next step down colder plugs,also if you have had any of your plug holes helicoil or alike keep a close eye on that plug in question,i am having an issue with this as we speak,its possible for a plug to run hotter in a helicoiled hole i have found out, especially if the helicoil is to short

Fuel pump,more power more fuel,stock is appentally ok for 200bhp but i would upgrade to be on the safe side.

Actuator and boost control,both worth considering a stronger actuator can help it hold boost better in the high revs and also make a noticable difference in the way it spools if your stock actuator is weak.

Fuel pressure regulator,this can vary depending on which way you go imo,i like the rising rate fse regulators on the mk1 unos especially if you are trying to get it to fuel right still using the stock managment injectors ect,there not known as the greatest regulator but they do the job imo and the rising rate seems to help get the fuelling better than a 1-1 ratio one.
IF you was to get it custom mapped though i would stick with a 1-1 ratio fpr,you could even keep the standard one and there would be no harm as long as the injectors are specced right for you car.

There is also proberly more that i have missed lol

The head work that you are on about,there is certainly no harm in it as long as you dont go taking large amounts out of the ports,just a casting mark smooth out and a port match is the most i would be messing with for diy.

Exhaust ports can be polished but the inlet ports need to have a slightly rough finish,like an 80 grit.

You can go on for ever here and unless you know what your doing its best left to a pro.

From what i think i have read though maybe a 3 angle valve seat job might be worth considering,not done it myself but think i have read good things.
You could go extreme,wasted and swirl polish valves,wasted valve guides,deshrouded inlet valves and cced combustion chambers etc etc but you need to consider the cost and performance to the pound imo,for the cost of a good head you could proberly buy a better turbo.

Just from what i have read though i would not be convinced to changing to larger valves,especially on the exhaust side,maybe i am worng and the others could comment but i think the exhaust side is ment to flow pretty well?


Then on to the engine management i cant really comment here other than yes aftermarket will be better than stock,which way to go you decide lol

I quite like the idea of the punto swap but its alot of work and tbh i am not a great fan of these seb chips,i dont know why and there proberly fine but they seem to cover such a vast array of mods and turbos per chip i cant see how they can be tailored for all.

I am sure they would proberly be better than stock,but would no dout still need setting up fuel pressure wise to get the afr's correct for each individule car with differing mods,which to me aint much different than what you would do on the stock set up.

Maybe the stock set up is way out but again i surpose its all mod dependent still to how your afr will be out,igniton timing you would assume to be better for power with these chips but again to cover such a vast range per chip i bet its still pretty conservitive/safe,how conservitive/safe the stock ignition map is i dont know.

Thats half the trouble i surpose not knowing understanding but if you went punto ecu to get the best out of it i would have it custom mapped imo.


Also another good person to ask about a mk2 maybe that guy with the recentally sparyed dark red metalic mk2 from turbo collective,not sure if he is on here yet though.

His car i think is running a kent cam although i am unsure what turbo he is using,possibly a punto hybrid,anyhow his car is still on stock managment and looks to have made 185bhp on the dyno.
I think i recall his fuelling was not perfect but how far off or rich/lean i dont know,might be worth tracking him down,think he is on facebook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PgBhu77SFE

As for all the above its all just my opinion,i maybe wrong so dont take it as gospel,its not all from experiance and alot is just from what i have read and think i can remember

I will dig though my faverites at some point and just paste the links in here,some maybe usefull and some maybe not,alot is from punto sports which tbh is a pretty good place for a mk2 as your engines are so closely related,when i talk unos i can only mostly go off the mk1's.

thank you mate, you've given me more to think about.
so 200hp maybe a bit optimistic then.

as far as the intercooler goes though i don't want to have to cut the bumper to fit a bigger one.

again though mate thank you for the info.

Yeah 200bhp on stock turbo aint going to happen i dont think, unless maybe you push it very hard and then i am still not sure if its possible on the stock ihi vl5.

Intercooler you can glue.strap brace up if needs be but if it does go pop it leaves you stranded at the side of the road,they can be put back together though if they do got pop with abit of patience.

Trouble is with the stock postion you are limited on space,i think i am using pretty much the largest stock postion/fit intercooler you can get being the mk2 pace one.

Its a very good quality cooler but how much better the cooling is than stock i dont know,proberly not hughly better due to its size but atleast you know it wont pop apart.

Trouble is they are way to expensive imo,think they are proberly close to £250-£300 new,you could proberly design/buy a better setup for that money and including all the pipe work aswell.

Forge also do stock postion coolers but i think they are slightly smaller than pace,the mk2 pace does run closer to the road though which imo would be quite a worry if your car was really low.

imo its always worth keeping your eyes open for the second hand stock postion alloy intercoolers though just for the popping apart peace of mind when running abit of boost.

The stock coolers can also be modded with alloy end tanks if needs be,but i dont think they would be quite as good as a forge or pace item,something you also need to watch for if buying second hand and to be sure if its is a branded cooler or modded stock one.

As for power, i think a realistic power figure with keeping it all sensible would be around 170bhp on the stock turbo,maybe some other mk2 owners could comment,what power/spec are they running as i am not overly sure tbh?

Like i mention though i think the puntos are a pretty good comparison to a mk2 to what you can expect power to mods wise,especially the gt1's as i think they use the same cam as a mk2 and are possibly a close compression ratio match aswell.

Also not that i could really say for sure as tbh i dont know lol,but i suspect that 170bhp or close would be achievable on the stock ecu setup with just fuel pressure adjustments to get the fuelling close,18odd psi boost and breathing mods.

What boost are you running atm?

Also heres some piccys of the mk2 pace intercooler just for a comparison to the stock ones...

i had a stock cooler pop apart on my mk1 years ago it went with quite a bang thought something serious had blown just put the cap back on and bent the tabs back and of i went took me a while tho to notice it was the cooler that went lol

ok so i think a larger turbo or maybe a hybrid then is going to have to be an option then?

there is quite a difference in those pics of inter-coolers Rich.
i've been looking at my brothers diesel inter-cooler on his vectra and was wondering if a diesel one would be ok for a petrol car?

the reason i'm asking is because his is very thin and looks just like a radiator.
his one is in a silly place though, sitting between his air-con rad and the engine rad.

but this type one looks to me to be able to fit in that tight gap between my bumper and radiator.

Yeah if you want a genuine and solid 200bhp i think you proberly should be looking in that direction,not sure what type tbh but i think the punto lot like there ball bearing garrett gt25 series turbos,not looked into it much but heared gt25r mentioned quite abit as a good one but am unsure on all the specs of it tbh.

You will proberly lose abit of low down responce and make full boost abit later but the trade off in mid to top end should be more than worth it i would of thought.

Like i mention its all a trade of when pushing for power and if you are not carefull you can completly ruin a car because of this imo.
Sure you can have 300bhp+ in your 1.4 and no dout it will be ballistlcly fast when your on it, but your power band will be so small with it all up top and you will pay for it lower down with it being unresponsive and laggy.

As for the intercooler i am not to sure tbh,depends on alot of things volume,flow design etc, i would not really be able to tell you what size or design you would need for it to be efficient or what makes a good intercooler tbh.

There are few different factors what makes a good intercooler and its been a long time since i have looked into it all.

Like there is the tube and fin vs bar and plate argument,if you look at the pics the mk1 and pace cooler are tube and fin and the mk2 cooler is bar and plate.
Which is better i cant remember,but its all to do with surface area,weight,heat soak and various other things.
Then there is the fin design and how efficient that is etc also inside the intercooler tubes there is also sometimes fins as well,a turbulated core with also adds to its efficency.
Then i think there is the pressure drop across the core to consider etc etc,its way past me to say whats good and whats not lol

Also talking of turbulated cores,i could be wrong but i have a sneaky feeling that the mk2 isnt where at the mk1 is,i could have this the wrong way around but i can remember looking once.
If this is the case i would proberly say just going mostly by looks lol that the mk1 intercooler is better than the mk2?
Maybe someone could confirm?

ok cheers for your help mate.
this is going to be a lot for me to get around but so worth it, (i hope anyway)