Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

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Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by Slim on Mon May 26, 2014 9:36 pm

Hi

The spec:
Mk1 bottom end
Mk2 crank
Mk2 head
Mk2 pulleys and belt
Mk2 cam box
Mk2 cam
Mk2 alternator
Aftermarket water pump

Ok, ever since I last built my engine the cam belt and aux belt have been slightly out of line. It's not a real problem as it works just fine as it is but I would like to sort out a solution to fixing it without taking it all apart.

Currently the cam belt sits approx 3mm further out on the cam pulley and auxiliary shaft pulley. The crank pulley is approx 3mm further out as the TDC sensor is not completely inline with its pickup lobe. The crank pulley and the alternator pulley seem to be inline with each other but not with the water pump pulley (approx 3mm).

Here are a few photos.










Firstly, has anyone experienced this when using the same setup?

Secondly, will the MK1 crank pulley fit onto the Mk2 crank as this may be an option to solving the issue + I prefer the Mk1 belt (wider)

Looking at it I cant figure it out....!!!

I'm not too bothered about the auxiliary belt alignment, I can live with it as it is.

Thanks

Liam





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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by st1allstar on Mon May 26, 2014 10:04 pm

dunno if this will help but Im using all the bits off a punto gt they all go onto the mk1 1.3 engine,

waterpump cambelt, pulleys, alternator etc

I had to change the centre driveshaft and the bracket which bolts to the block to get it to line up maybe thats where your problem lies
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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by Slim on Mon May 26, 2014 10:26 pm

st1allstar wrote:dunno if this will help but Im using all the bits off a punto gt they all go onto the mk1 1.3 engine,

waterpump cambelt, pulleys, alternator etc

I had to change the centre driveshaft and the bracket which bolts to the block to get it to line up maybe thats where your problem lies

Is your engine all Mk1 top and bottom?

I think the intermediate drive shaft bracket could alter the position of the alternator but wont correct the cam belt pulley alignment.
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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by st1allstar on Mon May 26, 2014 10:33 pm

Yes full mk1 engine
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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by Slim on Mon May 26, 2014 10:41 pm

I'm sure mine is misaligned due to the Mk1 block and Mk2 head.
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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by gtirx2 on Mon May 26, 2014 10:44 pm

My cam belt runs very similar to yours,i looked into this and it can be from aload of different reasons from worn pulleys to a slightly off skimmed head or cam box.

I faffed about for ages with changing pulleys etc trying to get it to run true but gave up in the end,i don't think it to much of a problem tbh as you have the crank pulley on the bottom stopping it from coming to far over and coming off.
Also from a lot of my old cam pulleys it seems none of them ever ran in the middle anyhow,i think I just noticed it more when I changed to the kent cam pulley as its ever so slightly thinner.

As for changing to mk1 pulleys I am not sure if this is possible or not,cant see why not but you would have to change the lot cam,crank,and oil pump pulley and belt as the tooth pitch design is different between the mk1 and mk2s pulleys.

As for the alternator belt out of line I think you will proberly find its the water pump causing the problem.
I had this happen to me and can only assume the mk1 and mk2 water pumps differ slightly.

He is a quote from my old build thread...


Next fcuk up was that i had picked out the best looking/feeling water pump and bolted it all up only to find out the pulley was not sticking out as far on the shaft as it should and was making the fan belt run out of line Mad
The water pump must have been for a mk2 at a guess so i had to swap that out for another one and make a new gasket out of gasket paper, as the gasket set dont seem to come with a new gasket?


So at a guess you have a mk1 pump on a mk2 setup,unless I just picked out a dodgy pump on mine.
There are proberly other ways around this as you mention like possibly changing the crank pulley to get it inline with the pump but then you will proberly have troubles with the alternator being out of line and possibly need to change the bracket as allstar mentions or possibly the alternator.

You also need to watch it when mounting the larger water pump housing part to the engine with the water tube off the back,there is quite abit of movement on the mounting bolts and this can be done up in a slight off postion which will also make the belt run slightly off.

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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by Slim on Mon May 26, 2014 10:50 pm

Have you got any photos of your your belt over cam pulley? I have run mine like this for over 2000 miles with no issue so far. Just looks odd and people comment on how close it is to the edge.
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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by gtirx2 on Mon May 26, 2014 10:55 pm


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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by gtirx2 on Mon May 26, 2014 11:02 pm




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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by gtirx2 on Mon May 26, 2014 11:07 pm

You can sort of see the old wear marks on these stock pulleys...


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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by Slim on Mon May 26, 2014 11:13 pm

gtirx2 wrote:


It doesn't look as though there is much room for it to go back the other way?
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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by gtirx2 on Mon May 26, 2014 11:14 pm


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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by Slim on Mon May 26, 2014 11:15 pm

gtirx2 wrote:You can sort of see the old wear marks on these stock pulleys...


Yeah the one on the left looks to be similar to how mine is running.
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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by gtirx2 on Mon May 26, 2014 11:20 pm

There is alittle to go back the other way,its just the kent pulley has the rim which makes it look alot slimmer than a stock pulley.

I was a little concerned as it was almost just hanging over the tapered edge of the pulley where on the stock pulley its ever so slightly wider so don't look so bad lol.

I have been like this for proberly over 6k miles now and its abused daily and spends more time than it should riding on the 6.5k rev limiter  Laughing 

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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by Slim on Mon May 26, 2014 11:40 pm

I have been like this for proberly over 6k miles now and its abused daily and spends more time than it should riding on the 6.5k rev limiter

Hahaha... Laughing 
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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by Slim on Mon May 26, 2014 11:52 pm

This is how it used to sit and the only thing that has changed is the block. Much further on.

1400cc 1992 block:
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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by Slim on Tue May 27, 2014 7:38 am

During today I have now noticed that the bracket that goes form the engine block to the engine mount on on the OS are different between Mk1 & Mk2. Because the Mk1 has the cover plate over the water jacket the engine mount bracket has to be slightly thinner. Looks like I need to change mine as its the Mk2 bracket/mount on a Mk1 block, this is pushing the engine over by approx 5mm toward the NS.
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Re: Timing belt and auxiliary belt out of line.

Post by Slim on Tue May 27, 2014 8:24 am

st1allstar wrote:dunno if this will help but Im using all the bits off a punto gt they all go onto the mk1 1.3 engine,

waterpump cambelt, pulleys, alternator etc

I had to change the centre driveshaft and the bracket which bolts to the block to get it to line up maybe thats where your problem lies

Are you using full PGT management too?
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