Stage 1 hybrid IHI fitted - Big mistake?? Help please :)

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Stage 1 hybrid IHI fitted - Big mistake?? Help please :)

Post by blondechris on Sun May 11, 2014 6:42 am

Any ideas/opinions/advice welcome!  I think I've made a big mistake but don't know enough about it to know what to do.

I've had a brand new stage 1 hybrid IHI VL7 for a Punto GT fitted to my Mk2, (rather than going for a standard VL7 I was going to) in my greed for hoping she would suddenly become a rocket on wheels, and she now idles like an absolute pig mostly stalling.  Also don't get any boost until above 3500rpm and max out about 0.5 bar!  

I had no lag at all on the original standard VL5 that came off her, and never had any idling issues.

I've tried adjusting the screw on the back of the afm but doesn't make any difference.  It's like everything is starved of power and fuel when stationary as when I'm moving the engine runs fine, just with lack of boost kicking in until way up the revs.

Firstly, is it most likely the hybrid turbo that is causing this because it's too hefty for the standard engine set up??

Secondly, is there an easy fix? or am I better to try and appeal to the good nature of the turbo suppliers and come to a deal if they will take it back for a standard VL7?  I'm worried I've opened a can of worms as I don't want to start altering too much on her.  

Thirdly, assuming I were able to get her idling correctly and boost to 1 bar with a manual controller, would I still get the huge turbo lag with the hybrid?  Don't think I'd ever be satisfied with that.

Interestingly, if anyone else was thinking of doing the VL5 to VL7 swap, you will need the Punto GT elbow as the stud pattern is slightly different on 1 of the 4 securing bolts even though the seal is the same shape, and I also had to have the downpipe triangle cut and welded the opposite way around with 1 bolt at the top and 2 at the bottom as the original was 2 top 1 bottom.  Other than that it was a straight swap.
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Re: Stage 1 hybrid IHI fitted - Big mistake?? Help please :)

Post by st1allstar on Sun May 11, 2014 11:37 am

You defo have an issue somewhere maybe a boost leak? It's not just because it's a hybrid turbo,
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Re: Stage 1 hybrid IHI fitted - Big mistake?? Help please :)

Post by Dunc on Sun May 11, 2014 6:43 pm

Agreed with mark. Fitting a hybrid turbo wont make it idle any differently. Full boost will come later deffo, due to it being a larger turbo. As for only hitting 0.5 bar, its obviously not setup right. Im guessing the actuator needs tweeking.

On another note, mk2 uno turbos came with garrett turbos as standard. Mk1 unos and punto gts had ihi.

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Re: Stage 1 hybrid IHI fitted - Big mistake?? Help please :)

Post by blondechris on Sun May 11, 2014 10:49 pm

Dunc wrote:Agreed with mark. Fitting a hybrid turbo wont make it idle any differently. Full boost will come later deffo, due to it being a larger turbo. As for only hitting 0.5 bar, its obviously not setup right. Im guessing the actuator needs tweeking.

On another note, mk2 uno turbos came with garrett turbos as standard. Mk1 unos and punto gts had ihi.

Dunc

Ok, I'm going to have a go again today! I had a thought last night that I had the Lambda changed to a brand new one whilst everything was off. Could that potentially cause an issue if the new one is faulty??

As for the last quote, that's what I always thought, but I think only the phase 1 Mk2's had a Garrett and the phase 2 mk2's from K reg onwards (when cats became compulsory) when they did a minor facelift with colour-coded scuttle, door mirror triangles, and tailgate lift, Fiat went back to IHI's for some reason. My previous K reg had an IHI and my current L reg had an IHI which were definitely on there out of the factory.
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Re: Stage 1 hybrid IHI fitted - Big mistake?? Help please :)

Post by blondechris on Sun May 11, 2014 11:16 pm

blondechris wrote:As for the last quote, that's what I always thought, but I think only the phase 1 Mk2's had a Garrett and the phase 2 mk2's from K reg onwards (when cats became compulsory) when they did a minor facelift with colour-coded scuttle, door mirror triangles, and tailgate lift, Fiat went back to IHI's for some reason.  My previous K reg had an IHI and my current L reg had an IHI which were definitely on there out of the factory.

I've check Fiat Eper by cross referencing the part numbers and this is correct.  The later cat models from July 92, or 'USA 83' as they classify them, went back to IHI but the earlier non-cat mk2's were Garrett.
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Re: Stage 1 hybrid IHI fitted - Big mistake?? Help please :)

Post by st1allstar on Mon May 12, 2014 12:13 am

there is defo something not right, a stage 1 hybrid will only be a little bit more laggy than a standard turbo, my guess is a boost leak, check over all the pipework

my old punto gt had a garret turbo on it,


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Re: Stage 1 hybrid IHI fitted - Big mistake?? Help please :)

Post by Speedy on Mon May 12, 2014 4:09 am

Sounds like a vacuum leak or boost leak to me buddy

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Re: Stage 1 hybrid IHI fitted - Big mistake?? Help please :)

Post by blondechris on Mon May 12, 2014 8:57 am

On a separate note, whenever I try to send a PM or reply to a PM on here, it keeps going to outbox and not sending? Anyone else having the same problem??

I've been tinkering with the car all day and no leaks anywhere... Literally, the only change at this moment is going from the factory VL5 to the hybrid VL7.

It still feels to me like the bigger hybrid is trying to suck more air than she can cope without all the mods, but the opposite thoughts from people so far! The two turbo units next to each other are significantly different in size, especially the actuator on the hybrid which is huge in comparison which makes me think even more that she's just needing to work much harder to feed the hybrid?

I took her for a fairly long drive this evening, and on the move she was running lovely, very lively, and spooling up slower than I'm used to but efficiently from about 3000rpm peaking about 0.6bar. It was every time I came to lights or a roundabout still the same idle problem, and also a strange kind of intermittent starvation suction squeal at idle, although she did manage to just about tick over by herself. My standard turbo would always kick in about 1500rpm and rise to 0.7bar very quickly and with ease.

Am I definitely not right with the idle If I'm not uprating the fuel and air intake??
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Re: Stage 1 hybrid IHI fitted - Big mistake?? Help please :)

Post by blondechris on Mon May 19, 2014 12:39 am

One of the hoses had a hairline split in it almost unnoticeable  Smile   All fixed and she's running sweet again!

Never going to love the lag though so will go back to a standard turbo when I have the spare funds.

Thanks for the input and PMs guys!
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Re: Stage 1 hybrid IHI fitted - Big mistake?? Help please :)

Post by st1allstar on Mon May 19, 2014 4:43 am

you need to run more boost on the hybrid, I had a hybrid before on my mk1 and it was laggy with 0.6bar but turning it up to 1.2 it was rapid, spooled up faster the more boost you ran,
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